A few years ago, I had developed an online store for a buddy of mine using osCommerce. I had hoped to use Joomla! or Drupal for the site but at the time wasn't satisfied with the shopping cart extensions or modules that were available for either CMS. Shortly after developing that site a new eCommerce module for Drupal became available called Ubercart. I've never had taken on the task of building another online store (it was a lot of work) but I've always kept my eye on Ubercart just to stay informed.
Ryan Szrama who has been the project lead of Ubercart from its beginning posted yesterday that Ubercart will fork into Drupal Commerce. At this time it is now known what will become of Ubercart. Ryan writes:
A rose by any other name is still a rose, and Ubercore by any other name is still the best thing to happen for Drupal based e-commerce since the advent of Ubercart. For at least the foreseeable future, Ubercore will continue as Drupal Commerce, managed similarly to Drupal itself. We'll be working our tails off to make sure e-commerce on Drupal 7 shows just how awesome having fields in core can be.
As often happens in open source, the trademark owner and some of Ubercart's developers are in disagreement with the direction Ubercart should take in new development. Luckily, for Ryan and the developers of the new project, Ubercart is under the open source GPL license which allows them to use all of source code for Drupal Commerce. This should be an interesting story to follow in the world of open source CMS.
Comments
Comments Deleted
For the first time in four years, I was forced to delete a series of comments. A large percentage of comments for this topic were posted under different anonymous names but originated from the same host computer. I can only conclude that the comments were meant to taunt or bait others into an unneeded debate.
My apologies to those that left constructive comments behind and were also deleted. Unfortunately, you were the minority in the comment thread. I've intentionally left the comments open on this article and optimistic that others can be more constructive in their comments.
Bryan, CMSReport.com
Free speech
I know for a fact that four of my colleagues (all of whom I know in person, and none of whom share a host computer :) ) posted on this thread as part of those comments that spoke to the less than flattering aspects of Ubercart. I can't speak to the truth of your claim of being trolled, but I can tell you that, in the interest of free speech and not appearing like you have something to hide, you ought to respond to comments you disagree with, using rational, well-thought-out responses, rather than simply removing them and making a claim that you were trolled.
PS: Ubercart/Drupal Commerce does not work as it stands now, and unless people are willing to accept that and try to fix it without getting bent out of shape when someone points this out, it's never going to improve. And just to be clear on my own position, I hope it *does* improve. :) I like the idea of Ubercart and its initial intended functionality.
Well for starters, there is
Well for starters, there is no right to free speech on a privately owned Website. If we're talking the US Constitution, the right to free speech only covers publicly owned properties. But that's besides the point. I have a right to remove spammers and trolls from the Website if I wish. Engadget just recently turned off all the comments because they got tired of dealing with the knuckle heads. I'm more optimistic and believe we have enough quality commenters that they outweigh the bad apples I see now and then.
Considering that UberCart (or whatever they call it today) is an open source project under the GPL project, there is nothing stopping you from improving the code. I've used/seen a number of shopping carts for various projects. The worse of the bunch had to be osCommerce...yet it did it's job and ran a busy online store for four years before it was replaced by a proprietary shopping cart. This isn't rocket science...it's just code. So I'm sorry, there is no politics involved. It's just that whining about a problem without offering real solutions is a waste of time for everyone.
So exactly, how do you propose improving the code in UberCart? For a Drupal site, what ecommerce package would you recommend? Answer those questions and then you finally add value to this discussion.
Thanks for the comment, Bryan
I appreciate you engaging those who have raised any concerns on your blog. I know you aren't legally obligated to allow people to speak, but isn't it better if we're allowed to speak our mind without being shut down?
To respond to your question, I do belive that Ubercart has to be rewritten from the ground up. I have to ask, how much experience do you have with leading a software project, or with coding on one that is larger than a couple 10k's of lines? I do not ask this to insult you but only to inquire whether you have the authority to say "there is nothing stopping you from improving the code.". Drupal Commerce isn't a 'fork', it's a complete abandoning of the code... I'm not sure you realize that, either.
As to your other question... that's the sad answer... Ubercart is the best anyone has been able to come up with so far. Caveat Emptor.... It has hit a dead end ad people realized it, so now there's going to be Drupal Commerce (and others). Just because it's the only choice doesn't mean it isn't just a toy.
Anyways, I do not want the level of debate to devolve to what could be construed as 'trolling', I just wanted to suggest there is another side to this debate, and as anyone can see, things are a-changing. I appreciate that you didn't just remove our comments. Thanks for being reasonable.
No insult taken. Long term
No insult taken. Long term followers of this blog know that I'm no true software developer. I was active in the 80s and 90s when it came to writing code, but for the last 10 years I haven't done much. Honestly, this is probably why a lot of developers like to visit this blog. They know I understand the issues, but I don't have an invested interest in today's software development rants.
Yes, I understand that Drupal Commerce will likely be a rewrite. My understanding, is that this is one of the reasons the project lead of UberCart left for Drupal Commerce. Some of the developers on the side of Drupal Commerce) didn't want to patch the "old code" but wanted to rebuild the ecommerce platform from the ground up so not to repeat past mistakes. Some of those invested heavily in Ubercart (including trademark) didn't want to see so many changes furthering the need for the split. I know the project lead visits CMS Report now and then and he can correct me or elaborate further if he wishes to.
Solutions for users
I appreciate your candor here, Bryan but just to be clear, I'm talking about the well thought-out responses and airing of grievances as opinions that people should have a right to voice on a public facing (if privately owned) website. You obviously have the right to delete whatever comments you want, but as Mr. Chaos states beneath me, I should think that, on a public facing blog that features opinions and users are encouraged to read it, if comments are enabled, the idea is that users should comment if they have something to say on the subject, even if it's not a coding solution or a glowing review.
I'm not talking about the trollers or spammers...I'm simply talking about other people as smart as you, who disagree with you.
I also think it's a little harsh to call what anyone is doing in discussing Ubercart's flaws as "whining." I am not a web developer, but a project manager, and I oversee multiple ecommerce websites. As such, I do not have the ability to come up with a way to "fix" Ubercart...I can only say that as a user, it has major flaws, and point out these flaws when I'm given the impression that an appropriate audience is listening. We users who experience these problems (such as a faulty up-sell feature, or the Paypal glitch which unfortunately cost a client of mine some money in sales before we moved on) need to feel like we can express these issues and bring them to the developers' attention without being shut down or accused of whining. People who don't think the world of Ubercart aren't slandering a product with no flaws. They've experienced problems with something that needs to be fixed. I'd like to use a Drupal-based ecommerce solution. As it stands now, I do not have that option. I don't have a solution. I'm asking for one.
This blog has been a great source of information for me. It was actually where I picked up most of my knowledge of Drupal (albeit strictly admin knowledge :) ). I hope that it continues to be a place where non-programmers (ok, n00bs :) ) can come for information as well as to voice opinions and express concerns.
That's sad...
I hope you won't mind hosting a list of Ubercart flaws for your users to see, especially after you deleted "constructive comments" from before, apparently.
Ubercart wasn't designed, it was hacked on and extended over and over again until it started to break when you make the slightest changes to anything. This is a hallmark of incompetence. Who led Ubercart, and who's leading the next Drupal Commerce?
Ubercart functionality is completely broken without JavaScript.
Code documentation is either scarce or redundant. We *do* need to know what's going on when credit inormation is flying around. We *don't* need to know that we just added one to a variable.
Really, I'm not going go on this time because I expect this post will be deleted too. Are we allowed to have an open discussion here? I'm from America so I abhor it when speech is censored for political reasons. I hope you understand. When you post on a public forum, expect public criticism.
Why would I delete your post,
Why would I delete your post, if it actually has some value? The previous posts were taunts and nothing more. I'm of neutral opinion when it comes to UberCart. It was an improvement over the alternative ecommerce platform available for Drupal and why I've kept track of it. I will say though a quick browse of the UberCart site indicates to me that the documentation and API is plenty for someone that truly understands Drupal and PHP. I suppose though, that's a subjective opinion.
What exactly do you propose or how would you improve Ubercart? What alternative Drupal module/package would you use instead of Ubercart?
Personally, there is only one open source shopping cart that really excites me and that is Magento Commerce (not a Drupal module). Alas, a friend of mine didn't take my advice and went with a proprietary version that didn't get him too much further than osCommerce.
Magento and Drupal
Actually, Magento does have a Drupal module http://drupal.org/project/magento . It was talked about in Drupalcon Paris, though I haven't personally checked it out myself.
I do think that a solution that integrates right into Drupal would be better, but maybe I'm wrong there. :)
Just wanted to let you know.