They Hate Drupal, They Love Drupal

Does Drupal make the grade? The answer to that question evidently depends on who you ask. Last week, the Tech Republic posted a review by Justin James on the Drupal content management system. Mr. James concluded that "Overall, Drupal does not make the grade". This week the Drupal community is all a buzz over the decision for IBM's developerWorks to use Drupal for designing, developing, and deploying a collaborative Website.

Why is there such a disparity in viewpoints for using Drupal in content management? For many first time users of Drupal, Drupal doesn't leave them with a very good first impression. It's only after you spend some time with Drupal that you begin to discover it has a number of traits that make it an outstanding application to build your website around. While Drupal doesn't give you a good first impression, it will eventually give you a second or third good impression.

Let's take a look at some of the reasons to why people may not like Drupal. The review written by Justin James for Drupal 4.7 is in an article titled, A product review of the Drupal Content Management System, does it make the grade? The author states that "Drupal does not make the grade". He bases his opinion on issues with usability and ease of installation. With regards to usability he says:

Drupal fails on these measures. There were links to create content, which I happily followed. I was immediately presented with an interesting dilemma: do I want to create a "page" or a "story?" The system explained that a "page" is for something like an "About Us" page, and a "story" contained content like a blog. This did not make any sense to me...Every other system I have used (that I can recall) lets you define a particular "page" as a blog, and then just add content to the blog.

I decided to try to make a "page." I was confronted by a plain area to enter text, with no WYSIWYG editing capabilities. I actually considered this to be good, because I have had so many problems with Web-based WYSIWYG editors. However, less than advanced users will be pretty helpless putting content into Drupal.

Ouch! The author also concludes that "Drupal may be a decent choice for an ISP, but its difficult installation, lack of simple on-line content management, and failure to provide asset management make it too hard to use for the average user for anything above and beyond basic site creation." Double ouch!

As a user of Drupal, I was somewhat offended by Mr. James' remarks. Then I recalled similar remarks made by others who were first trying out Drupal. I'm embarrassed to say, some of those remarks were made very publicly by me. I never really found installing Drupal to be difficult. However, in the beginning of my relationship with Drupal I had some issues with what Drupal required from the database. I posted those remarks at Drupal.org and in my own blogs.

Most of my early complaints centered around my frustration over some of the "special" privileges needed when accessing the MySQL database. Database privileges such as LOCK TABLES are not provided by all host providers. I also expressed some initial frustrations in getting to know and liking the Drupal community. There are time when potential Drupal users talk about what they don't like about Drupal. Instead of acknowledging the user's remarks may have validity, there were those that who replied with what I consider the lazy remarks. Their simple reply would be that "Drupal isn't for everyone". While there may be some truth to this statement, I was still not too happy with the response.

Lazy remarks usually get some not so lazy replies from me. In this case I decided to reply back that this Drupal Community isn't for everyone:

First let me say, that as an "advanced beginner" I found Drupal very easy to install and use. I am struggling somewhat with how best to write/tweak the themes and modules...but hey I'm just at the start of the learning curve. Overall, I found Drupal is for me. So what's my complaint?

I have read a number of posts over the past weeks and noticed a common thread. It seems to me that whenever someone points out what Drupal is lacking...the response from many in the Drupal community is not very open to the criticism. Whenever a user discusses the need for better features there is almost at least one developer or Drupal evangelist responding with, "Maybe, Drupal isn't for you". That type of response just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Yea, we know Drupal may not be the answer to all our problems, but hey let's at least try to address the user's concerns.

As I said, I like Drupal. I just wish this board was more open to suggestions for improvements from the non-developers. Maybe once I get to know the community better my first impressions will improve. I hope so...

Triple Ouch! So you see, my first impression of Drupal and its community was not much better than the review found at Tech Republic. Luckily, relationships grow and change...

I'm nearing a year of participation with the Drupal community. While my contributions to the code have been nearly non-existent...I try to help users when I can. Over the past year, I've learned if you stick with Drupal you'll find that your second impression of Drupal and its community is better than the first. A little more down the road, your third impression of Drupal is even better. The more you stick with Drupal and it's community the more you like it.

I have come across so many content management systems that gave me a good first impression. However, when you dig deeper into some of the CMS out there you find that their beauty is only skin-deep. You dig deeper and you may find the "eye-candy" of a CMS doesn't deliver the features you really need. While some CMS have a smaller learning curve than Drupal, they can also have limitations that prevent your site from evolving the way it should. Future reviewers take note: An easy installation or short learning curve in the start of a project should not be how a CMS is judged. A CMS should be judged by how easy does it allow you to complete a project?

Drupal's strength is understood not with the first impression it gives users, but with the final impression it leaves users. It appears the folks at IBM appear to have made some of the same observations I made about Drupal. IBM's project development series involving Drupal and other open source projects should become a good read and the start of some great discussions ahead.

I completely agree. I

I completely agree. I though drupal was "hard" at first and tried the other prettier one's, only to find out their beauty was skin deep. One drupal had the flexibility I needed without being a nightmare as some systems are (typo, ouch!)

I don't see the typo. Where

I don't see the typo. Where is it?

No on Drupal

I for one never did get to liking Drupal. It's a very frustrating CMS. For most, something like Wordpress or e107 will meet most needs. Though, I'll admit, Drupal seems to work well with this site. What advantages are there too registering?

I agree with you :) Drupal

I agree with you :) Drupal rocks for those who really need a real open source which Empowers you to do whatever you want to do. No doubt Drupal The Best you can get whithout paying a cent. Guy's! Are you ready to struggle?

Drupal is great!

Drupal is absolutely great! It's getting better and better every day!

Well... it has its plusses and minuses

I've got a couple years experience using Drupal at this point. And I must say that Drupal is a mixed bag of blessings and curses. First, it has great features. I like the flexible taxonomy that's now built into 4.7, and the "content construction kit" lets me easily define content types as I find the need for them, without having to write code. And the positives do go on and on. However ... I picked Drupal partly because of the active community. On the drupal.org forums I found them very friendly. Lately I've tried submitting some patches against some modules, and instead been met with brick walls of non-cooperation. Rather than being glad to see the contribution, and working with me to clean up the contribution, they are throwing requirements right and left I have to meet and refusing to be helpful. Another issue is the actual implementation. The code is basically a mess. They don't have a clean object encapsulation model, not even a dirty one. There is no attempt at all to hide implementation details. The inner documentation generally sucks big time with a very few exceptions. One thing I would like is for the major "objects" to have a module that provided an API providing methods to operate on those objects. Do they have that? No ... instead the "modules" have methods related to the "hooks" that are required to get the system to function. So, suppose you want to dynamically add a category name to a vocabulary? There is not a method anywhere that does this simply. And this is just one example ... the general observation is if you want to do an operation on some object, the method probably doesn't exist.

In the Field...

We use Drupal and Typo3 on more than a dozen sites. Drupal is great for quick, automated "community" sites in a single language. I love Drupal! Typo3 is great for large, complicated, multilanguage corporate sites -- these are currently impossible for Drupal to do (believe me, I've tried.) I HATE Typo3, but I make A LOT of money putting up these sites and only Typo3 can do what I need it to do relatively quickly. I can put up a complete Drupal site in a day or two, but a Typo3 site takes about a week. However, Drupal's installation process is unnecessarily complicated. A basic Typo3 installation with several extensions takes a couple minutes and is mostly hands-off. Drupal and a few extensions can take up to 30 minutes and needs a lot of needless mucking-about. Conclusion: Typo3 is difficult, but difficult for a reason (extremely configurable). Drupal has no excuses. Drupal needs to make some serious improvements in multilanguage support, extension packaging, and templating to be taken more seriously. Otherwise it's an awesome CMS.

Why the dislike for TYPO3?

At the risk of getting off-topic, why do you "hate" TYPO3? By the way, I've already been corrected by a visitor that it is TYPO3 and not Typo3. Foot in mouth

I also find it interesting that you mention liking Drupal, but have to lean toward TYPO3 for corporations. My experience in working with commercial clients is rather limited, but I think Drupal's lack of respect for backward compatibility scares some companies away. It's the usual trade-off between innovation and stability. Either way, I am more interested in hearing your comments (or comments from others) on why they think Drupal may not be business friendly.

Drupal's learning curve

My experience was somewhat similar. I installed Drupal for the first time over three years ago. Once I started up the site, I was left with the "what I am I supposed to do with this?" attitude that so many people end up with upon first trial. I gave up. It was only a few months later after I installed it again and worked with it for a while that I found out how truly flexible it was and how superior it was in comparison to other CMS's I had tried. Been using it ever since :-)

22+ Features of a CMS from HTML to systematic website management

We have enlisted 22+ things we expect a CMS can do for us Drupal fulfills them all. No need to bluff anymore, if other CMS cannot even fulfill No. 1 by default, then stop hyping, start working to make your CMS matching Drupal. Like user friendly (and Google likings) URLS, Drupal has it by default (called URL or path alias). Other CMS makes you buy, pay for modules which dont guarantee what it promises to deliver, yet wrecking the site - like Mambo $EF exten$ion

Your 22+ features that you require

What are they? Would you share as to what you think is the basic "nut" that a CMS should have?

Drupal's Modules

I've recently also ran into a drupal's module search site, http://www.druplet.com, which seems very helpful when it came to look for additional modules, I would highly recommend it for any people looking for additional add-on.

Drupal is Great

I have been using drupal since almost an year. Being a coder myself, Initially it was hard to understand the system and its terminology. But later on i figured out that its the best choice to setup new websites quickly. I have now dozens of website running on Drupal without any problem. It takes my team just one day to setup/configure and add general purpose modules. If needed, code modification is very simple. I have worked with several other Open source CMS - but found Drupal to be the best for general community websites. I have tried TikiWiki, DrangonFly, PHP-Nuke, Wordpress, Nucleus CMS, and several others - but in the end Drupal works like a charm. Vinay Yadav PHP specialist http://www.vinayras.com (We offer Drupal Customisation)

Modx

Check out the amazing new CMS http://www.modxcms.com

Modx

We will of course check out MODx when time allows. Thanks for the tip. We now resume to normal Drupal programming on this thread...

Bryan

CMS Report

A very fair and accurate assessment

Comparing the immediate vs long term impressions of Drupal -vs- the application's that it's typically compared to (mambo, wordpress, typepad) was dead on. Drupal is a bit overwhelming at first with it's not fully automated install process. It's also underwhelming visually in its out-of-the-box presentation. But the more you learn it, use it and come to depend on it, the happier you'll be that you chose it. There's currently a focus on some of the common complaints about Drupal. The next release (5.0) will come with a simplified installation process and a new admin layout that should be much less intimidating to new users. But it will still depend on a knowledgeable admin to configure or customize it to truly take advantage of its capabilities. Drupal is (and hopefully will always be) a powerful, flexible, long term solution, not a 'hey, look what I set up in an hour' flash in the pan.

Drupal ouch!

I'm totally agree with this article. Drupal gives me headache for 3 months. Drupal coding was a real nightmare... it's like being stuck in th maze castle. I'm stick with drupal because I could rename all article URL's into more human language friendly (/category-name/file-name.html) which is very few extensible CMS support on this feature.

Fall in love

Last time I hate Drupal... now fall in love with it :P

What Drupal are lacking are probabaly lacks for beginner instruction, besides the core Drupal didn't shipped with plenty of good and powerful stuff, they were buried inside drupal.org. The beginners have to dig around the modules repository, understand what did what themselves... 

I hope there are few modules tagged/featured for beginners.  

drupal, joomla etc.

I have seen a lot of discussion comparing CMSs with a view to 'which is best' - the thing I have thought is that they are different tools. I tried to build a magazine type site which was to look glossy and have a very strict design, with drupal it was like trying to put a square peg in a round hole, however Joomla worked fine. Later I had to build a community site for artists networking, Joomla couldn't cut it, the CB module for Joomla is just not up to the job, however it was perfect fit for Drupal. Depends on needs. I am building a site with TYPO3, I see that it is amazing in concept, but I can't imagine adding community type features to it would be straighforward. These products have strengths and weaknesses, sure you CAN adapt them, but why not go with the flow and play them for their strengths.

My impression...

My experiences with Drupal is somewhat similar to some others, I tried it, panicked, went on to "candy eye" CMS's and was disappointed with their lack of flexibility beyond the initial installation. By then I was a bit more seasoned in the use of CMS, and decided to give Drupal a second chance. After all, it received so much enthusiasm all over. This time I was tickled pink with it and still am. However I really have to say that the community is not very helpful, I try to browse the forums to find answers and even dared ask a few myself. In a lot of cases these questions are never answered or even acknowledged and even repeated pleas have no effect. So there I see some room for improvement... Overall though I'd say Drupal is absolutely fantastic and the easiest (yes really) and flexible CMS I have ever worked with.

Impressions improving

I have to say, my impression of Drupal is improving. I first discovered it in use on the Performancing website, then on the PopSugar network. I'm starting to recognise Drupal sites popping up in search results more and more often. The learning curve is serious though. Only recently did the developers decide to be a little more helpful in the creation of vocabularies - what a nightmare that used to be! And there are some modules that should patently be part of the default install. TinyMCE and Pathauto for a start. Yeah, leave it so they can be switched on or off, but that stark content entry form can be very offputting when you have to hand code Bold and Italic. Nevertheless, I'm gaining enthusiasm for Drupal and looking forward to messing about with a couple of different deployment ideas, especially the e-commerce module. Rock on!

Excellent insight

Wow, excellent insight. I too looked at Drupal 2 years ago (back in August 2005) and was badly put off by the attitude on the Drupal forums. You are 100% correct regarding how many Drupal community members won't accept constructive criticism. Rather than view criticism as an opportunity to better understand real user's needs to improve Drupal they get very defensive and take any critcism personally. It told me that many of the people in the Drupal community were not very mature. However, about 6 months ago a local Drupal user group in Atlanta, Georgia sprouted up and I started attending out of curiosity. It's a great group of people with none of the attitude I experienced back on 2005 on Drupal.org. Then about 3 months ago I was working on a project for a new client and based on feedback from the Drupal user group I decided to try it and I'm really glad I did! I've now worked on three Drupal projects for three different clients and have several more in the pipeline. As I've studied the Drupal architecture I have far more often said to myself "Nice!" than what I expected and I usually find when studying software architecture where I ask myself "What they heck were they thinking?" (i.e. look at URLs in Joomla...) Suggestions for web developers new to Drupal; get a local development environment set up and also get a debugger and SQL query/edit tool. On Windows I'm running Apache 1.3, PHP 4.4.7, MySQL 5.1.19 and using PhpEd Pro + Debugger (expensive, but worth it) and HeidiSQL (free); couldn't be happier. I also got the Pro Drupal book; a must own for anyone working professionally with Drupal. Armed with all that, Drupal becomes much easier. On the down side, Drupal really does not a better new user experience and more integrated admin functions, but for the moment I'm pretty happy with Drupal because it has a very flexible architecture and lots of head room.

Fun-Tastic Drupal

Drupal is great! It's getting better and better every day! ModX, I can't access the provided URL, it says "access denied". Love http://www.angellica2017.com

Drupal CMS

Drupal is an exceptional offering and is used to host many major sites like MTV UK, BBC, the Onion, Nasa, Greenpeace UK, New york observer.

Agreed

I am Totally Agreed

Many of CMS users are

Many of CMS users are expecting when installing Drupal for the first time, a full featured site with all the rings and bells can cross your mind, but after some years, they realize that those things will only limit their imagination and creativity.
I just hate when i see thousand of sites almost identical.

I love Drupal for it's apparent simplicity.