Drupal and Joomla comparison

On a recent visit to Drupal's forum I found another post with both Joomla and Drupal in the subject line. Making comparisons between Joomla and Drupal are very common these days as they are currently considered the top two open source content management systems (CMS) out there. The forum post written by Steve Burge contains a link that takes you to a comparison table he did between Joomla and Drupal. While the table may not give the full picture of each CMS, I'm convinced that Burge tried to be as non-bias as he possibly could in his comparison.

There is something interesting about the table posted at Burge's site. Specifically, take a look at which elements according to Burge each CMS excels in and which elements each CMS fails. Did you notice a particular pattern in where each CMS is considered to have failed? If not, perhaps you didn't see the excerpt I posted earlier from Gadgetopia's Deane Barker, titled Architecture and Functionality in Content Management.

Let me be more specific. In the table Drupal fails on such elements as Shopping Carts, Event Calendars, Document Management, and Themes. The majority of these items are functions or features which are considered lacking in the Drupal CMS. Regarding the other CMS, Joomla fails to deliver in such elements as user permission, content management, multi-site management, and standard's compliance. Joomla fails in elements that are more architecture centric.

Taking the flip side, Joomla as a CMS appears to excel in elements that can be identified as functional, while Drupal succeeds in the architectural elements. Which element is more important in a CMS, architecture or function? According to Deane Barker he believes it is more important for a CMS to have better architecture.

As a developer with the capability to write code, I find myself much more concerned with architectural matters. Functionality can be programmed, but I’m at the mercy of architecture. Put another way, give me the right tools and materials, and I can build anything. But give me nothing but a pile of sand and a toothbrush, and I’m pretty much screwed.

In other words, if you agree with Barker that architecture is more important than function you're likely going to want to choose Drupal. However, if you need to make a quick sell where function, third party integration, and eye candy is important right out the box...Joomla still has the advantage.

What does the future hold in the post-Drupal 5 and post-Joomla 1.5 era? It's hard to say, but I'm betting Drupal will likely become very competitive in functions as it currently is in architecture. Then again Joomla may still pull a few punches as it continues to shed it's roots with Mambo. Interesting times ahead and I'll be quite interested how comparison tables such as the one we have been looking at will look like a couple more years down the road.

Link back at you

I see that the site you've mentioned in your article is also now linking back at you in their Further Reading section.

More in-links to CMS Report

Thanks, I didn't see that.

While this article hasn't picked up too many comments, it does seem to have caught the attention of those commenting at other blogs. A couple links to this article that I've noticed so far...

Peter Ball's Application Generation

Amy Stephen's Blog

-Bryan

 

 

 

semantics

Er... "pulling punches" means holding back -- looks like you meant "Joomla may still *land* a few punches." - Drupal user ;-)

Grammar!

Hahah that's true.. but i tend to make that mistake too ;)

Joomla! Architecturally

First, allow me to identify myself as a Joomla! faithful. ;-) I love your article and I believe it to be right on the money related to where Joomla! is at this exact moment. You are also right about Joomla! v 1.5. Not only is it going to "shed it's roots" with Mambo - but, it is a complete, 100% rearchitected solution using a Model View Controller pattern, much like you see for the design pattern in Java EE or ASP .Net. This will position Joomla! to better address the weaknesses you have correctly identified while, at the same time, making it far easier for third party extension developers to produce more and more functionality. We are already starting to see the the "awakening" as these developers begin to recognize the power in this application framework working with this beta code. Pretty cool! Keep up the good work and objective reporting.

I've looked at the Joomla

I've looked at the Joomla 1.5 code. Architecturally it's a disaster. I sincerely hope someone has a serious set of charts for that spaghetti bowl. I could care less about fluff-and-stuff. As the article says, give me tools to work with. I don't need a sandpile full of disjointed over-engineered classes. Pretty is as pretty does. Look pretty.

Another Anonymous coward

Another Anonymous coward (see above) posts contribed negative comments about Joomla! Ignoring the ever-growing number of developers at up to architect level who are exploring the elegant feature rich set of Joomla 1.5. Drupal seems to have been hi-jacked by Fuddsters (FUD creators) wanting to draw attention to themselves on the coat-tails of Joomla's success. Win some awards from industry peers, win some awards from the community. Last count? Joomla! bags of them, Drupal zero. Instead of people continuing to "compare" Drupal with Joomla! they should be looking at them as entirely different animals. Want sublime flexibility and power with content management or want a glorified blog? Joomla! is written for the global community. Drupal is written for coding-centric types. I've used both for years and use them for different purposes. Want power and a fun, cool community experience use Joomla! Goodbye FUDSTERS

Sounds like FUD to me

One man's FUD is another man's [insert noun here]. I find that the amount of passion people have for one CMS over another is inversely proportional to the amount of experience they have with the other - an expression of FUD itself. Truth be told, both Drupal and Joomla! have their strengths and weaknesses. One's choice of CMS for any given instance will be driven by many factors which will vary depending on the instance goals. It is pointless, nay ignorant, to play the 'my CMS is better than yours' game independent of an application context. It demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding which isn't very helpful to those trying to assess which solution works for them. I generally agree with the article. My experience is that Joomla! works very well for what it does - it is certainly more 'out of the box' and is easier to get the look and feel right. Drupal has less discrete functions but its add-ons are more flexible and powerful with not too much effort. Neither gets it completely right so I'm often left with the decision of 'which sucks less'. Interestingly each project is actively addressing its weaknesses. Drupal is working on usability, theming etc., and Joomla! is working the architectural underpinings. Each project is responding to its community and the result is that the two CMSs are offering more in common. Drupal and Joomla! communities are very compatible too. They are civil, constructive, and active. FUD discussions are out of character for these two communities, and I'm rather surprised to find it here.

Opinions with no substance are not helpful

If you have actually "seen" the Joomla 1.5 code, you could have been far more helpful (and convincing) in your post by refraining from meaningless statements like "fluff and stuff", "spaghetti bowl" and "pretty". You don't sound technically savvy. How much of the code did you see? How much time did you spend studying it? A quick glance at a few random pages won't tell you much about a complex product. You don't mention Drupal code - have you examined Drupal code and compared it with Joomla? I haven't used either CMS so I have no bias. I was hoping to learn something from this forum, so your post was disappointing.

gone for a solution that emphasises reliability

I would have gone with plone but it appears to require your own (zope) server and/or has a very steep learning curve. I wanted something fairly reliable so I went with drupal. I've seen some comments that the default 5.0 drupal theme is easily broken and/or difficult to modify. I looked at Joomla and it was not what I was after. Wordpress is a great example of a blogging tool but it is too specialised for the sort of site that I want. If you are looking to try out CMS's I'd use something like fantastico as a good way of seeing what the admin sees. Although, I'd be a little wary about using fantasico once you have chosen a CMS as it may lag behind a little on releases.

drupal

i use drupal and its the best cms :)

Best cms for sure

I totaly agree, it's the best cms and it plays it role pretty well. Drupal is by far the leader in my opinion, it's way more convenient than the other options we have.

I have used Joomla for a

I have used Joomla for a pair of web sites. What i like about joomla is that you don't need much time to make the site up and running. On another hand, since i am kind of standars maniac, i was frustrated by the html code Joomla outputs. Plus, when i started needing complex things i realized Joomla was not the tool i was looking for (at least up till now...). I've been reading about Drupal and gave it a try, i think that conceptually it is more robust and well designed (not graphic design). With flexinode and a bunch of other modules you can do a lot. Still one reproach i have is te UI...(i've read that work has been done on that on v5) While Drupal fulfills a lot of my needs, i came across eZ Publish. And it seems these two have something in common (Content type...). That is how i landed in this page, you know when you want to know how people compare two products... :-) Unfortunately, still haven't found a "Drupal vs Ez Publish" article or discussion... on cms matrix i could see that both products might be scored equaly...with a tiny diffrence...but in favor of wich one ? mistery ! :D So i'll stop here and continue my research.

another link

http://internet.ru also high traffic site (Russian) running Drupal.

Nice Drupal Sites!!!!

Those are great! Thanks for sharing. I have a list of Joomla! sites at JoomlaPlace.org.

Joomla Site

Great list of links. Thank

Great list of links. Thank you ! Keep up good work

drupal or joomla

both cms are good and high performance. i used joomla,but finally I decided for Drupal. I cannot say why. perhaps because Drupal can be more easily served.

I can tell you exactly why I

I can tell you exactly why I chose Drupal after trying them both. I am not a programmer so I mostly have to rely on the code that is provided. What I am able to control is the layout and look and feel of a website that I build. I will not claim any particular talents in that direction either but if my website has a table or even a column I want it to be there because I want it there. I also do not want to hack into core to take it out. With Drupal the worst that can happen, at least in the public part of the site, is that I will have to override a stylesheet. My information may be a bit dated because I drank the Drupal coolaid 2 years 23 weeks ago and never looked back, but that's my story and I am sticking to it.

Here is an example

Here is an example of what I am talking about: http://jeff.viapositiva.net/node/486, hundreds of existing Movable Type visual styles can now be used with Drupal.

The Leapfrog Effect

Often leading CMS products will leapfrog each other. One will provide feature A, the other won't. Next release it does, and adds feature B which the first must then implement. Drupal and Joomla! watch each other closely to adopt features that work for their respective communities. One of Joomla!'s goals is to abstract the presentation better - this was carried over from Mambo. Version 1.5 will put in place a lot of structural things that will make this easier. I wouldn't be surprised if the Joomla! solution is perceived to be superior to Drupal's PHPTemplate for a time (when it happens :). I guess my point is that you should keep an eye on all the front-running CMS solutions out there because you never know what a new release will bring. Of course you should balance your time/knowledge investment against any decision to adopt another solution. For example I once used Mambo/Joomla! for my projects but lately I'm using Drupal because it is 'usable enough' and I get the customized community features I need. When Joomla! 1.5 is released, I'll assess it and the leading 3PD products out there to see how it stacks up (I have nightly builds running already actually). Also, some solutions will just fit right - it's a personal thing. It has nothing to do with which is better; everything to do with which is better for 'me'. So while I wouldn't have difficulty in sharing my personal preference with the world, I would feel a little less secure in recommending it to others.

"Put another way, give me

"Put another way, give me the right tools and materials, and I can build anything. But give me nothing but a pile of sand and a toothbrush, and I’m pretty much screwed." then how come developers community of joomla jas been able to bring so much functionality with this pile of sand and toothbrush? and why are drupal developers lagging behind to bring functionality with superior architecture of drupal? are they less willing to share? In the end these are opensource CMS and majority of people using them are not great developers. They rely on other developers who are willing to share what they do with the 'architecture'. Someone who is great with coding will probably make his own CMS that will have atleast better security. Considering its true, it means that joomla developers community has opensource sharing spirit which is more important then both architecture n functionality

Custom CMS more secure?

Steering clear of the Drupal vs. Joomla debate...I was wondering why you thought custom CMS were more secure?  At the OSCMS it's been reported that those from the PHP camp believe those CMS that are built by a community of developers are more secure than those built by just a few.
Rasums Lerdorf's presentation was great. (This was the second time I heard him speak and it was as good as the first). He emphasized the importance of Security when considering a CMS and the effect a community of coders has on it. When he's auditing a CMS he knows that security issues once reported are generally resolved quickly. When he comes across a custom CMS he knows he can own it because no one person can track all the ways to exploit a site.

Put yet another way...

Actually both CMS solutions have architectures that can be extended in a consistent fashion. I think some prefer Drupal because it has a certain elegance that appeals to the code geek. This isn't Joomla!'s current strength, nor is it its historical focus. Joomla! is attractive to traditional, business-oriented sites. It has greater end-user appeal; less developer appeal. There are more end-users than developers, so correspondingly more demand for extensions of functionality. Drupal is more concerned with niche communities (though this is evolving) and its extensions are generally more generic and flexible. So Joomla! 3PDs, many who are commercial, are struggling with the current architecture and are anxiously waiting for the release of 1.5. Why? Because the target audience is bigger, not necessarily because the community is that great or the platform is best. There are probably other factors as well but I raise this one to point out that it is never that simple. Both Joomla! and Drupal have similar sized communities. Both are very active from a development standpoint. Both share, and even with each other. Both are concerned with security etc. So pick the one that works best for you. And stay open to the possibility that you may pick a different solution tomorrow. Anyone who chooses to roll his own CMS these days is probably an idiot unless he has some very unique requirements. It just doesn't make sense to do all the re-work. Easier to select a solid base CMS and extend it through a custom module. An alternative for those wishing to go through the pain (as a learning exercise), is to at least use a web framework like Code Igniter or Cake (or a multitude of others).

Thanks for this intresting

Thanks for this intresting impressions.

load time

I link load time of drupal .. but i use phpnuke mindphp.com

article

Thanks for very interesting article Bryan. btw. I really enjoyed reading all of your posts. It’s interesting to read ideas, and observations from someone else’s point of view… makes you think more. So please keep up the great work. Greetings

Thanks for the thanks. 

Thanks for the thanks.  Though to be honest I'm surprised this article has become so popular to read.  I think I've written better articles on various topics that get little fanfare.  I think the next big match up will be between Drupal 6 and Joomla 1.5.  Stay tuned...

Both are great

Both are great. Joomla is simpler at the begining, but Drupal is really powerfull. In the last few months, there are a lot of "big players" converting their sites to Drupal - New York Observer (http://www.observer.com/), UK MTV (http://www.mtv.co.uk/) and others.

For me, Drupal's hooks have

For me, Drupal's hooks have been essential to help me build my yearbook website. I spoke with Joomla's lead developer at LinuxWorld in London and he explained how Joomla didn't have such hooks and doesn't plan to any time soon due to its architecture. His words "Joomla is more top-to-bottom whilst Drupal is more vertical", meaning that in Drupal each module can hook into each other, whilst in Joomla if something's done at a low-level, higher levels can't interfere with it. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | don't buy World of Warcraft Gold, make'em. | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Drupal Vs Joomla: SEO

I had been studying Drupal Vs Joomla debate for quite some time now and finally chose to instally Drupal on basis of the information available on forums and blogs like this. My main concern was to experiment with Search Engine Friendliness of these CMS systems and after a lot of debate and discussions and posting on various forums I chose Drupal over Joomla and so far the idea has worked. Drupal offers some great advantages like 1) Url Renaming 2) Menu Url Linking 3) Great Taxonomy the drupal url naming system is simply great. I have been documenting all my finding on SEO part out . I have also been studying the webhostings for Drupal & Joomla, some of which are especially optimized for either of them and will be posting on that too. Till then good luck.

Check out the joomla installation

I was trying to figure out some nice templates for travel blog website.. I used the Joomla installation, can anyone guide me on this please? Check out the site at http://www.goa.bz/index.php

Goa

Xoops vs drupal vs joomla?

hmmm, I currently use XOOPS. . .would like to know more about other CMS as XOOPS development is slow and some modules are buggy. Still xoops seems to have good architecture and a wide range of modules. . .maybe some of you drupal and joomla users who have experienced xoops could give comments? Thanks

XOOPS, Drupal, Joomla!

I don't have too much experience with XOOPS, but agree with you that the development and community activity does seem pretty slow when  compared to that of Drupal and/or Joomla.  Of course this could be a good thing as one of the complaints by some Drupal users is development is so quick that it's hard to keep up.  While Joomla development seems to be going strong, they also seem to do a better job in keeping backward compatibility then Drupal.  Drupal is willing to break backward compatibility in order to allow for hopefully more innovation.

Personally, I think you should give both Drupal and Joomla a try.  If you find out that you like neither...then perhaps your joy and appreciation for XOOPS will return.  While trying out the competition may not work in a marriage...it seems to work well when it comes to CMS!

Great

Excellent article its realy helpful, keep up the good work! Thank you.

www.webware.com/8301-13546_10

www.webware.com/8301-13546_109-9729862-29.html - drupal is "Webware 100 Award Winner" - nice award :)

Thanks

for very this interesting article. Good work Bryan! greetz katze

What about the 'Nukes?

Great discussion. Thank you to all the contributors! I have yet to recommend/install a CMS solution but every now and then I follow the happenings in this community. A couple of years ago it appeared that phpNuke was a leading contender. Being a .Net developer I was also intrigued by DotNetNuke which appeared highly evolved. What happened to these two frameworks? Are they still worth considering. I would love to hear thoughts on anyone with some experience. Cheers, Adam

Another Comparison

We've just done a report for one of our clients comparing Drupal, Joomla & Wordpress for (1) multilingual capabilities (also called internationalization or i18n); (2) end-user usability; and (3) developer usability. As a national organization in Canada, being bilingual was a must. Check out our CMS comparison.

Mike, thanks for the

Mike, thanks for the reference.  I look forward to reading the "white paper" when I get a chance.  Given the amount of people that have visited this particular post in the past year...I'd say people have a lot of interest in the subject of "comparisons".

Joomla

Great Article, Keep up the good work, Greetz

Joomla looses to Drupal on SEO

Drupal has a better architecture than Joomla - I agree. Where Drupal falls short is with its Shopping cart, but these have all been improved with the latest release. If search optimization matters - Drupal out performs Joomla

Drupal Shopping Cart

Which shopping cart are you referring too?  e-Commerce or Ubercart?  Just wondering as I think eventually a good comparison between the two carts will likely be on my horizon.

cmsreport is running on

cmsreport is running on Drupal ;)

CMSReport.com on Drupal 5

Yes, CMSReport.com is currently ran on Drupal 5 and likely will be ran on Drupal 6.  Though to be honest, I'm always open for change (and new challenges).  I haven't closed the book on running CMSReport.com on Joomla 1.5.  My interest was sparked after reading some of the positives coming with Joomla 1.5.

I like Drupal 10 times better

I have used both Drupal and Joomla in many occasions and I just hate the Joomla environment. Drupal is easier to use, easier to teach and plus the modules are updated for free. This days Joomlaists want to charge for every single bit they do... Drupal is in my heart to stay. Jenn, Ruby on Rails Developer

Joomla money making scheme, becoming more like Mambo$$

Comparing Joomla and Drupal Joomla is the tool of choice for web developers who want to sustain their income from the web owners! Why? Because it is hard to manage a Joomla site, you cannot right click the admin links, you have to rename every single bookmarking with your browser, you cannot have Title of the article on the browser header, you cant have URL alias! SEF URLs have to be bought and installed. And Joomla.org is advertising arena. Oh, back to Joomla admin - it is true that web owners continue to pay the web developer to publish, manage, and oversee. Not a good thing for a non-profit, non-commercial organization.

Apples and Oranges

While I appreciate the developer effort that has gone, and is going, into Joomla, you might as well use Frontpage or Contribute for the same out-of-the-box functionality. I have spent the entire weekend installing and dissecting Joomla. Three levels of navigation is all Joomla supports (And, unbelievably, some have the audacity to claim this is a good thing!?) without going into hacking the core (WTF?), or having to do plain stupid workarounds in the admin interface. Beyond that, adding any sort of functionality (and I don't want to pay for 3rd party components and *then have to hack them* to get rid of shoddy, non-standard compliant markup) requires a considerable amount of coding. Not difficult for anyone skilled in PHP, but TEDIOUS and a PAIN IN THE @RSE. One thing that has just blown my mind with Joomla is how it treats content. ONE field, combined - which is even worse - from being TWO in 1.0, where you simply type in your content. Joomla just treats it as one lump of markup. Like I said, YOU MIGHT AS WELL USE FRONTPAGE. Anything else (say, articles with a title/subhead/standfirst/body/image caption/pullquote/author credit), and you'll have to create 1) a new database table, 2) a component, 3) a module and, if you want to be able to search the articles, 4) a plug-in . No wonder the 3rd party component market for Joomla is booming. In short, Joomla in is current state is a simple Web CMS for creating simple web sites where the owners are happy with out-of-the-box functionality, or paying for 3rd party components and putting up with the faults/functionalities of such. If you can't compromise on functionality, then bending Joomla to do what you want is a serious waste of time/money. Anyone claiming anything different is doing their clients a disservice and/or smoking crack.

Comparison Table

Your link to the Comparison table is, I'm afraid, unhelpful. It requires a log-in; and after getting the log-in, and after responding to the follow-up e-mail; it turns out to require a paid subscription... which makes the circle a bit of a waste of time. :-(

Re: Comparison Table

Looks like they've made changes at their site that eithe is intentionally or unintentionally blocking the comparision table between Joomla! and Drupal.  You may just have to an archive of the page for now (though it doesn't render well).  :-(

Comparisons

Joomla certainly has more addon's availble than Drupal and selecting a CMS depends on one's needs. Engineers can well create code to extend a open CMS as needed. Drupal has been more efficient than Mambo/Joomla, Amazon.com uses Drupal for forums and more as an example of a enterprise site needing tools to handle significant traffic load. With that all said change is always on the horizon. There are several really nice Java based CMS systems such as OpenCMS. There is DotNetNuke while being a Microsoft based Portal/CMS is really getting a sizeable community of commercial calibur component support and has numerous benefits since it is true portal software. Even in the areas of Flash there are several promising projects underway for complete Flash based CMS systems. The *BIG* problem for anyone is WHICH to use in the hopes of being able to manage enterprise level traffic.

Most Read, Comments Closed

This post is one of the most read articles to date here at CMS Report. But, it is also fast becoming outdated. While I don't want to remove the article, I do feel it is time to close the comments.

Please check the "related stories" section below to find possible links to other Drupal and Joomla related posts that may interest you!

durpal

hello,

 

im using durpal such a long time and i will use it much longer - comprasion with joomla is good think for both of them.

joomla

I'm didn't saw any jommla+drupal sites... it's fake.

<a href="http://mp3fast.net">bebob</a>

Comments Closed

Comments Closed. With the original post being more than a year old, I've decided to close the comments. Thank you for all those that participated in this thread!

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